Thanks again.

No problem. This is interesting.

That is where my confusion stems from. There’s a natural state, agreed. What are the attributes of a natural state? Is it happiness, contentment? Here is where I guess the philosophies differ.

It’s not really a state. It’s all there is. It’s whatever seems to be happening, which could include no-thing sading, angering, fearing, tabling, flooring, treeing, bodying, thoughting, memorying, sounding, appearing. Experienced by the self, it is unsatisying, Revealed to no one, it is perfectly fulfilling.

For example, I guess Buddhism states that the natural state or nirvana is nothingness. They don’t believe in Soul, God etc.

I’m not sure that there is a “Buddhism” that “states,” but I know what you mean. Who cares what some religion seems to posit? Look to the awakened ones. Last night, I was reading Natural Perfection: Longchenpa’s Radical Dzogchen (translated by Keith Dowman), which is an extensive description of the natural state. It’s not just “emptiness.”

Hinduism has many factions, but Hindu Vedanta believes the natural state is samadhi, pureness of thought. They have a notion of a Soul.

Same answer for this one. Who cares about a religion? Look to the awakened ones. I can’t quote anyone right now, but I’ve read extensively in Indian literature. The description of the fundamental nature of reality is essentially the same. They’re just talking about non-duality. It’s the same no-thing. A big difference that might be seen is when a self is telling you about memories of no-self versus a direct report of no-self. The self remembers non-duality as “bliss,” whereas it’s actually just what seems to be happening without a self-illusion. To the self, it’s amazing and also terrifying. When there is no self, it’s totally normal, and characterized by fulfillment, but for no one. Spiritual teachings are coming from self-illusions trying to teach illusory people to attain all there is, which is impossible.

Maybe in some other philosophical belief, natural state is a state of enlightenment where oneness with God is realized.

It’s the same thing. It’s the union. It’s exactly the same.

This dissent with each belief systems in how they construe the natural state is very confusing to me.

There’s only apparent dissent when you get lost in the words. Reality is too simple to understand. All this complexity is created by the self-illusion to try to maintain itself.

I hope I am not disturbing you by asking too many questions.

It’s fun.

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An engineer-psychologist focused on machine intelligence. I write from my own experience to support others in living more fulfilling lives | duncanriach.com

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